"Boeing has uncovered another potential design flaw with the 737 Max"

"DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back" (karsonkinja) 01/06/2020 at 10:21 • Filed to: None

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Honest question: at what point do they scrap it and start over? Is that even possible?

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 01/06/2020 at 10:28

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I'd like to pitch that they start renting them out on Airbnb

WilliamsSW > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 01/06/2020 at 10:30

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I think it was ttyymmnn that made the comment recently that the MAX will be the safest aircraft in the world once it returns to revenue service. I suspect that’s true - it’s getting a lot of extra scrutiny now ( deservedly so). The wiring issue described is no deal breaker. 

CB > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/06/2020 at 10:31

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Looks like how the 737 MAX has been landing.

facw > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 01/06/2020 at 10:31

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No reason to scrap it, this would be a relatively minor thing, if indeed it is an issue. And there’s no way doing a clean-sheet design makes sense. The worst case for Boeing would be that they’d have to admit the 737 MAX is a different airliner than the 737 NG, and get it (and its pilots) recertified.

Also, there’s some speculation that this issue also affects the NG, which would say:

That it’s not that risky, because it would have gone through millions of flights without issue.

Boeing has a lot more planes to fix (though moving the wiring is apparently not a big deal)

Boeing does have this problem that every little issue that usually flies under the radar with aircraft is going to get front page headlines like this for the 737 MAX, at least until they’ve been back in the air for a good long while.

whoarder is tellurium > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 01/06/2020 at 10:32

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This “potential design flaw ” just sounds like a routing/production issue   that could happen on any aircraft.

Of course, it just so happens to be on the 737 Max. 

HammerheadFistpunch > WilliamsSW 01/06/2020 at 10:33

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I agree with this sentiment. I think the wiring thing isn’t going to be a huge problem.  

For Sweden > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 01/06/2020 at 10:35

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We finally have the civilian version of the F-35 program

ranwhenparked > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 01/06/2020 at 10:37

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Maybe it was a mistake to shut down 737 Next Generation production before all the issues with the Max were sorted out.

Also, I have to say the President was probably right about the need for rebranding. At this point, the 737 Max name is so badly tarnished, the damage probably can’t ever be fully repaired if and when it does return to service. I think Boeing has already started dropping the word "Max" in some official communications. 

facw > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/06/2020 at 10:38

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Yeah, not great for them when it became clear that getting back in the air this winter was not in the cards (it’s a bit shocking to me that it’s taking this long, but I guess the FAA isn’t letting them get away with a “quick” patch, not that anything is really quick in safety critical systems.

For Sweden > HammerheadFistpunch 01/06/2020 at 10:38

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It’s an easy fix to a potentially huge problem. Poor wire harness design has crashed airplanes before, United 811 being a famous example.

It doesn’t help that w ire harness usually has the least experienced engineers.

whoarder is tellurium > For Sweden 01/06/2020 at 10:40

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I’ m still waiting for the VTOL 737 MAX variant. The one that doesn’t crash on landing.

For Sweden > whoarder is tellurium 01/06/2020 at 10:41

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Boeing already tried that with the V-22

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > WilliamsSW 01/06/2020 at 10:42

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I wonder how trusting flyers will be of it once it returns to service. I personally would be pretty leery of flying on one after over a year of news about corner/cost cutting, whistleblowers calling out company culture and procedures...and its not like this is the first problem Boeing has had with a new product line.

whoarder is tellurium > For Sweden 01/06/2020 at 10:42

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Pour enough money and human souls into a project and it’ll work eventually. 

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > facw 01/06/2020 at 10:45

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But I mean isn’t that part of the problem? I may not be understanding the situation correctly but t hey’ve strung the 737 along for decades to the p oint where its technically new plane while exploiting the regulation loophole saying its just a new version of the old one?

whoarder is tellurium > ranwhenparked 01/06/2020 at 10:46

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Well, they already used “ Next Generation” . So, I guess chronologically, 737 “ Deep Space Nine” might work? Although, 737 “Voyager ” kinda sounds better.

Future next gen S2000 owner > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 01/06/2020 at 10:46

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Most people probably don’t know or care. I have no idea what plane I’m on even though my United App tells me. I stick my face to the glass at the boarding gate ohh go “oohhhh look! A plane! That one ’s mine!”*

*Only slightly exaggerating.

DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back > ranwhenparked 01/06/2020 at 10:50

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Thats really what I meant by scrap it. Its like how Audi nearly left the US market in the early 90's until they changed their naming scheme after that unintended acceleration fiasco.

I think the challenge to win the trust of flyers back will not be just fixing the problem itself but trying to recover their corporate image because o f how they handled it.

WilliamsSW > For Sweden 01/06/2020 at 10:51

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Yes, I don’t mean to say it’s no big deal, but the fix itself  should be no big deal.

HammerheadFistpunch > For Sweden 01/06/2020 at 10:52

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Yeah, It can be a big deal for sure. From the sounds of it this is more a high consequence low probability problem.

WilliamsSW > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 01/06/2020 at 10:55

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I think that some passengers will avoid it for a while, until it (hope fully) builds a solid safety record, then people will be fine.

Back in the late 70s, people were avoiding DC10s for a while - but by the time I started travelling extensively in 1993, flying a DC10 was no big deal- in fact, I flew on many, and always enjoyed a nice quiet ride.  I preferred them over 737s when I had a choice (yes back then domestic wide body routes were far more common).

OPPOsaurus WRX > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/06/2020 at 10:56

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at some point that stock will be a good investment. i’m not in a rush  tho

Textured Soy Protein > ranwhenparked 01/06/2020 at 11:08

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They probably have to and will rename it, but at the same time, everybody’s going to be like, “this is the new name for the Max, I’m not riding on that shit,” for at least a couple years. Then they’ll probably forget about it and not even say anything like “hey wasn’t this the one that kept crashing until they fixed it” while they wait for their Delta gate agent to call boarding group “two” that’s actually group 87 after all the un-numbered sky priority platinum gold silver military family senior groups. 

ttyymmnn > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 01/06/2020 at 11:36

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RyanAir has already covered up the word “Max” on theirs. They’re calling it the 737-8200.

ttyymmnn > Textured Soy Protein 01/06/2020 at 11:37

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See my reply here . As of now, Boeing has no plans to officially rename the plane, though I overheard a flight attendant tell the exit row pax, “No, this is not a Max.” 

ttyymmnn > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 01/06/2020 at 11:38

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ttyymmnn > DAWRX - The Herb Strikes Back 01/06/2020 at 12:09

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That’s exactly what they have done, and it’s come back to bite them. They should have left the 737 where it was and built the 797 instead. 

Svend > whoarder is tellurium 01/06/2020 at 12:23

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.

facw > ttyymmnn 01/06/2020 at 12:50

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Lots of benefits for airlines if they could get it to behave closely enough. They’ve just failed at that.

ranwhenparked > whoarder is tellurium 01/06/2020 at 13:44

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GM used to add the Roman numeral “II” to their cars'  names to let customers know that they had finally corrected the problems with the first version. But, this isn’t the 737's second time around, so maybe they could rename it the 737-V. Or Mark V or GEN5 or something. You want to make it seem like an evolution beyond the Max, not a continuation of it.

whoarder is tellurium > ranwhenparked 01/06/2020 at 15:31

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Pull an A pple and just call it the 737 “Pro”